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Brandon Beasley's avatar

"So what did Gödel send to von Neumann that suggested he had “established the theorem on the unprovability of consistency”?"

Isn't the obvious answer the first incompleteness theorem paper, which, as you note, has the bit at the end about the follow-up result? Von Neumann said: "As you have established the theorem on the unprovability of consistency as a natural continuation and deepening of your earlier results". So, he is taking Goedel's word for it based on what he says in the first paper, that "From the results of Section 2 follows a remarkable result, regarding a consistency proof of the system P…" and the subsequent sketch.

So, it doesn't seem to me that Goedel was misleading Von Neumann at all--what it sounds like is that Von Neumann had basically produced a similar sketch of a proof, but upon seeing Goedel giving the same basic sketch at the end of his paper proving the 1st theorem, he gave it up.

Marcus Arvan's avatar

Hi Ananyo,

Thanks for your reply, but I think it is missing my main point, which is that taking someone’s *research program* and unilaterally “making it your own” is problematic. The “stealing” here was not taking a second proof from Gödel; the problematic appropriation was instead taking the *first* proof presented at the conference, developing a second proof (without even asking Gödel, “Are you working on any further proofs on this?”), and then telling Gödel: “I have a fantastic new proof *based on your ideas at the conference* that I plan to publish.” That’s the wrong. If someone did that to me, I would be aghast. You just don’t take someone’s conference ideas and unilaterally develop them further for publication without even giving the original researcher a chance to even develop their program in that direction for themselves (or finding out whether they are)…since again, the original proof was *their* idea, not yours. As you say, Gödel didn’t even tell Von Neumann *whether* he was working on any further proofs. For all Von Neumann knew, maybe he was, maybe he wasn’t (sometimes researchers like to keep things under wraps precisely so that others don’t poach their ideas). So, what was wrong was Von Neumann even working on the new proof and intending to publish it without even knowing what Gödel was or was not doing with his own ideas.

It’s fine to argue (as you do) that Gödel did something wrong—but my point is this: ugly scenarios like these are initiated in the first instance by the untoward actions of Von Neumann and Hilbert. When someone presents something at conference, the proper thing to do is to let them develop it or at least approach them to suggest collaboration. (I want to add here that I think Von Neumann did the right thing in the end, deferring to Gödel—but my point is that if Von Neumann had behaved better in the first instance, this controversy could have been avoided).

Finally, the fact that Von Neumann was already established and famous (and Gödel junior) makes it all the worse. Established people should not try to “steal the thunder” of junior researchers by taking appropriating their research programs without due deference for the fact that the entire research program was developed by the junior person, not them.

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